Nick Wilde, Thought Machine

In Episode 36 Dexter Cousins is joined by Nick Wilde, APAC Managing Director of Thought Machine.

Founded in 2014 by entrepreneur Paul Taylor, Thought machine enable banks to deploy modern systems and move away from the legacy IT platforms that plague the banking industry.

Thought Machine's cloud native core banking platform, Vault, has been written from scratch as an entirely cloud native platform. It does not contain a single line of code which is legacy, or pre-cloud.

Customers include Lloyds Banking Group, SEB, Standard Chartered and Atom bank. Now more than 350 people across offices in London and Singapore Thought Machine have raised more than £110m in funding.

Listen to Nick talk through the Thought Machine solution and their plans for Australia.

Find out more https://thoughtmachine.net/

Follow Nick https://www.linkedin.com/in/wilde-nick/

Business digital banking and Fintech special

Business digital banking and Fintech special show.

In this bumper special Dexter shines a spotlight on just a few of the Aussie Fintech's doing incredible stuff in the world of business banking and SME Finance.

Featuring interviews with leaders from Trade Ledger, Judo, Prospa and Butn.

A special show deserves a special location. Recorded on Sydney's stunning Northern Beaches (Shelley Beach, next to Manly) Dexter is joined by special guest, Ryan Edwards-Pritchard CEO and Co-Founder of Cape.

Previously, Ryan was Managing Director of Funding Options, a UK SME Finance Fintech, and pioneers of open banking in the business lending and SME space, making Ryan's insights super interesting.

Now building his own SME Finance Fintech in Cape, Ryan shares his views on how Fintech in Australia is perfectly poised to take off.

Other guests include;

Paul Carmichael, APAC Director Trade Ledger

Alex Twigg, Co-Founder, Judo Bank

Rael Ross, Co-Founder, Butn

Beau Bertoli, Co-Founder, Prospa

Damir Cuca - Basiq

In episode 34 Dexter Cousins chats Fintech with Damir Cuca, CEO and Founder of Basiq, an open banking platform enabling developers to build innovative financial solutions.

Working with some of Australia's largest banks, backed by Westpac's ReInventure fund and Salesforce and part of the CDR pilot scheme, Damir shares his vision of what open banking could mean for Australia.

We also discuss how Damir came up with the idea, his secrets on leadership and why he chose Sydney's stunning Northern Beaches (home of Tier One People) as company HQ.

You can find out more https://basiq.io/

Follow Damir - Twittter @damircuca or LinkedIn linkedin.com/in/damircuca

86 400 Anthony Thomson talks digital banks

"In 2012 there was another seismic shift in the data I had spent 30 years reviewing. Going digital had truly arrived. People wanted to be completely mobile. This led to the launch of Atom Bank in the UK."
anthony thomson, chairman 86 400

Anthony Thompson is co-founder and chairman of 86 400, Australia's first smart bank.

His impressive resume includes founder and chairman of Atom Bank the UK's first mobile bank and, Metro bank in the UK, Anthony is one of the world's leading pioneers in digital banking.

Could you tell us a little bit more about 86 400?

86400 is Australia's first smart bank built with open banking in mind. The simple premise is the ability for the consumer to pull all of their bank accounts, credit cards, and payment services into one easy app. This allows customers to take full control of their money using data analysis.

What are your thoughts about the future of banking in the era of open banking?

There are a few interesting elements to this. Firstly the pace of development and rhythm at which banks will have to operate. We are lucky enough to have an incredibly strong team of people at 86 400. There is a mix of approximately half engineers and technical people and half traditional bankers. You need that mix of people to gain momentum in a digital bank, which by nature requires a fast rate of technology deployment.

Secondly, the use of an agile framework is essential, especially in a digital-only bank. Everything that underpins open banking should be about the consumer. How do you give the customer a better product/service/experience? The era of open banking should allow us to do that.

Our experience in the UK tells us the big banks think differently about open banking. Banks feel they have nothing to gain and everything to lose, which has resulted in them dragging their heels. The introduction of open banking to its fullest extent in the UK has been hampered by this. We are seeing a similar trend here in Australia. When open banking is fully integrated into Australia, I think it will be good for the consumer. The banks who choose to put the consumer first by using the technology available that underpins open banking should be in a great position.

86400 is a fully licensed bank with mortgage and lending products in your first year. How you have managed to achieve so much in your first 12 months?

We have just over 100 staff in Australia. When we show people around our CBD offices they are impressed that we have a fully functioning multi-product bank operating out of one floor. When COVID-19 hit, we were able to operate the entire bank seamlessly, without a single person working in the office using modern technology. Running a bank remotely three or four years ago would not have been possible.

Cuscal as our founding shareholder for 86400 has put us in an incredibly fortunate position. For those not aware, Cuscal is the largest independent provider of payment services here in Australia. Cuscal has provided us with the capital and resources, which enabled us to get off to a tremendous start. From this, we have been able to assemble a great team and focus on growing the bank without the monumental task of raising capital.

From my own experience of capital raising, which has been about a billion dollars over the last 11 years, it can be a real distraction to the management team. Having the ability to focus purely on the bank, gave us a great advantage in the Australian market.

Many traditional bankers question the neo bank model especially profitability. What are your thoughts?

I passionately believe that profit is a by-product of delivering what the customer wants. By providing a better service and experience for your customers, and managing your business well, you should be profitable.

Profit is very important to businesses. It is essential to pay the people who provide the risk capital. This in turn provides the resources, meaning growth. You can then pay the staff who work in your business. The end goal should always be doing something well for the customer.

The challenge of starting a new bank is that it is capital consumptive. Banks traditionally require lots of capital. Banks seem to more frequently go back to their shareholders with the 'we're doing well, we're growing fast, give us some more money', something which is different in other businesses. The capital intensive nature of banks has tended to make them a little more difficult than some of the non or lesser regulated FinTech.

Could you share with us your history and how you ended up running not just one, but multiple banks during your career?

My background is in marketing, not banking. Marketing is about looking at data, seeing an opportunity, and seizing that opportunity to develop a business. In 2007 when I first had the idea for Metro Bank I spent a long time carrying out research. The data all pointed to one thing, customers wanted value. The measure of this for High Street banks equated to one thing, Price. When you start digging into the consumers' response to "value" it meant more than just price. Customers valued service, convenience, trust, and transparency as well as price.

I saw a real opportunity to create a bank focused on all these elements. In 2012 there was another seismic shift in the data I had spent 30 years reviewing. Going digital had truly arrived. People wanted to be completely mobile. This led to the launch of Atom Bank in the UK.

My foray into the Australian market was championed by my wife a few years ago who liked the idea of a move to Australia. Luckily, she intended to come with me, not just pack me off!

I started researching the market and visited from the UK 16 times within 18 months. There was a great opportunity to create a digital bank here in Australia, with all of it's similarities to the UK. When I met with the Managing Director of Cuscal, he had a very clear vision of what they wanted to achieve. Cuscal had never built a bank and I had been around the block a couple of times before with Metro and Atom. The idea of us working together was a great marriage of our respective skills, experience, and expertise.

What can traditional banks do to regain the trust of customers?

My former partner in Metro bank was once asked a similar question at a conference. He is a well-known face and is recognisable for carrying his little Yorkshire Terrier with him everywhere. The question posed was:

"If we kidnap your dog, and don't give him back until you restore the trust in " BIG BANK" (they named a big American bank). What would you do?

He paused for a moment and said "I guess my dog is dead".

Restoring trust is an incredibly difficult challenge. I co-authored a book on the marketing of money last year, called No Small Change, which looked at the marketing of financial services in general, banks in particular. There was one conundrum we heavily researched which didn't make sense.

Consumer groups regularly say customers don't trust the big banks. On the flip side, big banks counter this argument with lots of their research saying customers do trust us. How can this be? One of them has to be wrong.

When we dug deeper (and we enlisted the help of a UCL professor) we found out they were both right. There are two types of trust. Cognitive and Associative. They are broken down as follow:

'Do I trust my big bank to have the salary that I paid into my account on Thursday still in my account on Monday?' YES
'Do I trust my big bank to pay my mortgage by direct debit on the 23rd of the month?' YES.

These are both cognitive trust, which is based on their competence.

On the other side of the trust scale, we have;

'Do I trust my big bank, to put my interests first? The resounding answer to this question is 'No, I bloody don't'. This is associative trust.

Whilst we trust the competency of big banks we don't feel they have the best interests of the customer first. The real opportunity for new banks, like 86 400, is for us to demonstrate to our customers that we genuinely do put them first.

'Hard to believe that Newcastle upon Tyne is like the projects in LA but we did share a lot of similarities.'
Anthony Thomson 86 400

Why did you choose 86 400 as a name for the bank?

86 400 is actually the number of seconds in a day. We feel it's a great because we are all obsessed with helping Australians feel in control of their money, every second of every minute of every day.

When an idea for a business comes to mind I often apply an old marketing trick. Give your business human traits and qualities. I carried out this exercise when I had the idea for Atom Bank. What would the personality of our business look like? I sat at home in Somerset mulling over this question with a glass of wine.

I thought if Atom Bank were a person it would be someone who lives their life digitally. Someone who understands social media, and gets the psyche of our target market 'the millennial'. I suddenly had this image of Will.I.am. I googled his name and suddenly I had a whole lot of info on him. Whilst his music is the thing he is most known for, he also has a huge AI business, employing hundreds of people across three continents. I was amazed to find out he is a tech entrepreneur.

To cut the story short, I contacted him, he liked the idea. He joined Atom as an advisor to the board and became a shareholder. It turns out we came from similar backgrounds. Hard to believe that Newcastle upon Tyne is like the projects in LA but we did share a lot of similarities. We remain friends, even though I am no longer involved in Atom Bank.

What are your thoughts on Australia as a FinTech hub?

I see several really exciting hubs around the world. Singapore, Shenzhen, California, New York, London, and incredibly the northeast of England. They all have great FinTech hubs. I believe it is more mindset, not geography that is the driving force. When you get young, hard-working, bright, people who are determined to make a success of ideas. Together they become greater than the sum of the parts, over time I believe the work being done on these hubs will be world-changing.

Finally, any plans to go back to the UK, or is Australia home for you?

Well, I think it is a question whether the Australian government would keep me! Certainly, my wife and I love living here, but there are lots of exciting places on the planet.

Ep 20: Open Banking Special

Join your host Dexter Cousins for a HUGE celebration! Open Banking is now live in Australia and in honour of this 'Game Changing' event for Fintech we have an amazing line up of guests. True pioneers!

In episode 020 of the Fintech Australia Podcast co-host is our good friend from True Layer, Marie Steinthaler.

And a bunch of our other friends crash the party 🥳🥳🥳 including:

Gareth Gumbly - Frollo https://frollo.com.au/app/
Stuart Low - Biza https://biza.io/
Rob Hale - Regional Australia Bank https://www.regionalaustraliabank.com.au/
Fred Schebesta - Finder https://www.finder.com.au/app
John Rayment - Identitii https://identitii.com/

Marie Steinthaler -TrueLayer

Dexter Cousins speaks with Marie Steinthaler, VP Asia with Truelayer about Australia's 1st July launch of CDR and open banking.

Marie can you tell us more about TrueLayer?

TrueLayer is a platform that provides global access to open banking. And what I mean by that is essentially a way for our clients to securely access their end users bank data, and payment capability through one normalised platform. And we do that by going out and finding the best banking API's out there. We then normalise across many different countries, use cases, API protocols, you name it, and then package it up in a platform that our clients can build on top of and innovate on top of by using their customers banking data or payment rails.

For those that don't know what open banking is, Could you give a brief overview for an everyday customer?

I would define open banking as a manifestation of the belief that the data that you create when you bank is yours. So the information that you create, every time you pay for something, you send a payment, you use your banking services, that is your data, and you should be able to use that data to your benefit. Whether that be better pricing, better access to products, verify certain things about your person that may otherwise be hard to verify. And to just make it very easy for you to be in control of how that data gets shared and how it gets used.

The empowerment of the customer is very much at the heart of open banking. Beyond that, at an industry level, it’s about making the collaboration between financial institutions and fintechs more open and more focused around the customer. That's at the heart of it. And TrueLayer was born to enable such a collaboration.

You recently partnered with Revolut. How's that going?

Yeah, going great. And we love working with Revolut and other internationally minded high growth, tech forward businesses. I like to call them an execution machine. They're so good at putting new products out there and listening to their customers. They make it very easy for customers to adopt new things like open banking. And we're excited about some of the new things they're working on as well.

You are about to launch in Australia? What is it about Australia that's attractive to TrueLayer?

We are building a global platform. So while we started in the UK and expanded to Europe, when we looked at the rest of the world, it was really a case of looking for markets where a few things are in place. One is a growing and well supported FinTech ecosystem. The second is regulators who are conducive and supportive of open banking, and want it to happen quickly. The third is our existing customers and if they want to expand to a region.

Australia scores well for TrueLayer on all three criteria. And, as I'm sure you know, FinTech Australia, and organisations like that are testament to the growing ecosystem in the market. There's also a huge amount of room for disruption. When you when you look at how profitable Australia is, as a market for financial services, as the saying goes your margin is my opportunity.

Australia has had some very well documented trust issues with banks and a royal commission. What have you learned from open banking in the UK that you think Australia can action to really help push ahead?

One narrative I've heard in a lot of conversations with potential clients or people in the Australian ecosystem is sometimes a bit of impatience or disappointment with the speed of the development in Australia.

If the CDR API is launched in July, it's still going to be faster than PSD2 was launched in the UK and in Europe. Fundamentally, I think for such a complex industry spanning project, Australia is doing a decent job at speed.

Obviously, that's no reason to slow down and I think we all want it to happen. ASAP.

I would focus on thinking about use cases and not being afraid to give use cases a try. The big questions and the most important aspect of CDR is Will people actually use this? Are they going to be willing to share their data?

When CDR launches I expect to see a rolling start. I don’t expect a switch to flick on July 1st and CDR will be all functional and ready. But the success of CDR does require some early adopters, innovators and thought leaders to take the plunge and use the infrastructure. It’s the only way to improve, because it's not going to get better if no one uses it.

That is a risk. Luckily in the UK, we work with companies who were willing to take that leap with us. I'm pretty optimistic that there will be companies in Australia who want to do this, don't want to give anyone an excuse to shut CDR down. It's up to all of us as an industry to say let's make this useful. And let's make it happen.

Robert Bell 86 400 - Leadership interview

Robert, how did you get to build Australia’s first smartbank?

I am a banker by background, I spent 15 years with one of Australia’s Big 4 banks and was given the opportunity to run banks in the Pacific and Japan. I came back to Australia to run a mid- sized mutual bank, and immediately before starting 86 400, worked for Cuscal (100% shareholder of 86 400).

Cuscal has an impressive track record of enabling competition through innovation and technology. They are an early adopter and one of the key founders of the new payments platform. While the big four banks are going very slow rolling out NPP, Cuscal quietly launched more than 40 financial institutions on day one, and did the same with Apple Pay.

Cuscal could see the trends overseas in terms of digital banks and spent a couple years researching international markets. We looked at bringing some of those models to Australia and decided to build a digital bank ourselves. I was involved in the original business case and then moved into the CEO role once Cuscal decided to move ahead with 86 400.

What has the journey been like so far?

Crazy busy!

But there is no other job I’d want, anywhere else in the world than the one I have right now. Building a full bank from scratch is incredibly challenging and exciting. We've gone through the process of getting a full banking license and now we are live. It has been an incredible journey so far and an amazing two years.

Working with our Chairman, Anthony Thomson is an unbeatable learning experience and I am supported by an amazing group of people. We’ve gone from 8 people on day one to now just over 90 people.

You spent two years building the bank. Now that you are live does it feel like a different business?

The reality is that the build will never be finished. The big difference between 86 400 and incumbent bank is the build. We have daily live releases and new updates to the App every four or five days at the moment. So the product is never going to be finished, we are constantly building.

But it is very exciting to be live with the product and finally putting it into customers hands. We think 86 400 is a really strong day one offering to customers, but we intend to improve. We have made it our mission to help Australian’s take control of their finances.

Australian’s seem spoilt for choice with new NeoBanks. What distinguishes 86 400 from other NeoBanks?

I think that's perhaps the wrong question to ask. The big four banks currently own 85% of the market so we are entirely focused on providing a product that offers a better experience, service and value than the big four banks.

That is the market we want to go after. We see the Big Four as the competition not NeoBanks.

8 million Australian’s currently bank using their smartphone. Of that 8 million 86 400 is focused on the 25 to 45 year age group (4.6 million) but our youngest customer is 16 and our oldest is 88!

We are giving customers something entirely different, smart banking.

What is a smartbank?

Before launching 86 400 an enormous amount of research was conducted over two years to unearth and understand the real problem in banking.
People naturally point to the Royal Commission and highlight trust as the problem. Trust is massively important but the real problem we see is this;

Money and our finances are becoming very difficult to manage.

More than 65% of Australians have a relationship with multiple banks. Today we have more money coming in and out of our bank accounts than ever before, which we never see, subscriptions, direct debits and we tap our card or phone more than ever.

It is like money has become invisible. People feel like they are not in control of their spending, making them increasingly anxious about money.

Our core company value is to help Australian’s take control of their money. So the 86 400 team have designed and built a smartbank that helps Australians take control of their money.

A smartbank is a very different premise and value proposition to the large incumbent banks. 100% cloud based technology, purpose built for people who use their smartphone for everything, banking, payments, applying for a loan etc.

One of 86 400’s unique features is the ability to link up to 150 other different banks to the App and view your credit card, transaction accounts, savings accounts, personal loans etc. You can see all your finances in one place. It gives customers immediate value when they join 86 400.

That’s what we think will help us compete against the big four banks.

We are extremely happy with the early feedback. There are two measures we are focused on right now and the initial response is very encouraging;

Are customers happy with the product?

And are customers happy to tell other people about the product?

Robert Bell 86 400 Tier One People Interview

Will Open Banking give 86 400 a competitive edge?

We believe that customers should own their data and if a company does hold data it should be used to the customers advantage, not just to sell more products.

Banking has always been focused on the past. A bank statement records what you have already spent, it is too late to do anything about it once you get the statement. Even with today’s banking apps customers see their statement now, but they are still looking backwards.

Once a customer links all of their bank accounts with 86 400, smart algorithms predict what bills are coming up in each separate account. That's a massive difference to what we see anyone else is offering in the market and the feature is resonating extremely well with our early customers.

It takes 120 seconds to open an account. You sign up and get immediate value. This is just a small example of what customers can expect from us when open banking really gets going.

86 400 is one of only two banks to be chosen for the Open Banking pilot program. We are very excited and consider it a huge privilege to play such an important role influencing the future of Australia’s banking industry for the betterment of customers.

But we are not naive, there is a long road ahead and there will be challenges along the way. Not everyone has bought into the benefits of open banking and we are already seeing some resistance as Cuscal witnessed when rolling out NPP.

How is the team structured?

In total there over 90 staff. Roughly 50% of the team are tech people. Developers, Engineers, Designers, UX and Data Scientists. As a fully licensed bank we have risk, finance and credit functions. The homeloans business is about to go live to the public so we have a full team in that business unit.

The entire team is a mix of highly experienced bankers and highly experienced tech people. We only employ people who are digital natives and passionate about technology. We don’t expect a 30 year banking veteran to become a developer, but you have to be comfortable using technology and be passionate about what technology can do to revolutionise the banking industry.

What qualities do you look for in people?

Our core company value is to help Australian’s take control of their money. And that principle determines not only the product we are building but the culture we are creating too. Thousands of people reach out to me and the team asking about career opportunities with 86 400.

The first thing we look for are people who can actually do the work themselves. There isn’t the luxury of hiring people whose unique skill is to run a team or focus solely on strategy. We need leaders who can be strategic and actually do the work required to deliver. I appreciate we are looking for a very unique person and skillset.

86 400 operates an Agile environment with a fortnightly showcase where our people stand up and share what they have delivered in the last two weeks. That can be frightening to some people coming straight from a big bank environment. But it's highly exhilarating for the people we seek to employ, because they get to build stuff without the blockers you get in large organisations.

How have you hired and retained the right talent?

We have a dedicated HR team which is a big help. It’s a very exciting time to be in the industry. Our people are genuinely passionate about changing banking for the good of customers. 86 400 is small, we have a very flat structure so there is much greater ability to influence outcomes for those who are prepared to roll up their sleeves and Get Things Done.

We are a technology business first. But right now we don’t have the room for bean bags and a table tennis table. We don’t see the need for an innovation hub because if the innovation isn't happening around the boardroom, then 86 400 has a BIG problem.

It is reassuring for me as CEO to see the team stay here because they feel the work they are doing is important and has meaning. And not stay here because we have beer pumps and table tennis. The whole team shows enormous pride in the work they are doing.

Success is celebrated as a team. When the first home loan was finalised, when we got our license, when we went live with the core banking system, when the first card transaction with an ATM happened. All of these milestones have been celebrated as a team.

There will be lots more to celebrate over the next few months. The homeloans product goes live to the public soon. The biggest celebration for me is the feedback we get from customers every day. It’s so rewarding to know that 86 400 is truly delivering on our core principle of helping Australian’s take control of their money.

Leda Glyptis - 11:FS

As CEO of 11:FS Foundry, Leda is at the forefront of innovation in open banking. She’s also Chief of Staff for 11:FS Group, a specialist digital financial services firm that is reinventing what providing advisory, technology and design services to the banking community looks like.

Leda is a renowned speaker, writer and academic in banking and fintech, and an expert in digital disruption, strategy and financial technology. She was recently named in the top 50 Senior Female Leaders in Global Fintech. Tier One People CEO, Dexter Cousins caught up with Leda to talk all things 11:FS and Will.I.am?!

Leda, most people here in Australia know 11:FS through the Fintech Insider podcast. Can you explain how 11:FS work?

At a high level, 11:FS is essentially a set of capabilities united by a common purpose. What do I mean by that? We have structured the business very deliberately around the way customers engage with and purchase financial services in the digital age.

Our business model consists of Media (content, podcast and events), Research and Benchmarking (market, product and competitor analysis), Consulting Services and the Foundry Platform. We build digitally native propositions for banks and financial institutions. As an example, we launched Mettle, an SME challenger proposition delivered for NatWest.

The Executive Leadership Team at 11:FS are ex bankers. Remembering back to when we worked in large banks, when it came to innovation, there would be regular meetings where everyone got excited by the question ‘Wouldn’t it cool if ….?’

Sadly, few if any of the ideas ever came to realisation. 11:FS exists to help financial services firms bring these ideas to life and build entirely new propositions with a digital first approach. We are a completely different kind of consultancy because our focus is on execution. And we spend our client’s money like it was our own, with every single dollar budgeted for up front.

Can you tell me more specifically about 11:FS Foundry?

11:FS Foundry is a game changing banking platform we are building in partnership with DNB bank. Today’s banking systems were built in the past and for the past. They worked in their day, but they’re no longer fit for purpose in the digital age. The Royal Commission in Australia highlighted many of the problems legacy systems create for large financial institutions.

Banks are spending billions keeping their legacy architecture on life support rather than truly transforming their services. Why? Because changing a core banking platform is staggeringly expensive, time-consuming and risky. We built 11:FS Foundry to enable banks to modernise systems without needing to replace everything at once.

It is a ledger first core banking platform with a modular stack. Which gives technology teams agility and flexibility, they can add modules as and when they need them.

The platform will launch soon. And the partnership with DNB is working beyond our expectations. We are really excited and see huge potential for 11:FS Foundry as we enter a new era of open banking.

Australia plans to launch open banking in July this year. What potential opportunities do you see down under?

That is a tough question. Open Banking should, in theory, create more competition. But I think it would be unwise to look at the UK and expect things to play out the same way in Australia.

Australia has 4 banks sharing 85% of the market. That kind of influence makes it very difficult for challenger banks, Neo Banks and Fintechs to pose a significant threat. International banks with deeper pockets have tried and failed to crack the Australian market. It isn’t easy.

Maybe Australia’s proximity to Asia is the game changer. Do Aussie Fintech’s use all their resources taking on the Big 4 banks, or do they put the same energy into Asia? It is a far bigger market. When I was last in Sydney for Sibos, the level of innovation in areas like RegTech, Data and Identity impressed me.

Many people in the Fintech industry first got to know 11:FS through the Fintech Insider podcast. Has it been key to the rapid growth of the business?

The podcast recently hit 300 episodes. It definitely builds our profile, but it also builds a vibrant community much beyond our brand. In fact, the greatest benefit of the podcast is the community we’ve built. The 11:FS community is global and the show is a great vehicle to share our message. But, if you listen to the podcasts, it is not about us. It is about the people in the industry, it’s about the community, it’s about giving Fintech’s a platform, a voice.

And for people in the banking industry the show helps by cutting through the noise and demystifying what is a confusing period. There is more noise in the industry than ever. Blockchain, AI, Fintech, Crypto, Cyber Security, Open Banking, API’s; Banking executives rightly feel confused. So, the podcast is a platform to share insights, knowledge and ideas.

As an example, we hosted AfterDark, an evening event at Level 39 in London. Over 200 guests turned up. A guest I invited (a highly influential global banker) came to me afterwards and said “I don’t know what impressed me most. The fact that so many people turned up in the awful weather. Or, the fact there are so many influential and heavy hitting people from Banking and Fintech in the room.”

Banking executives clearly want to embrace change and innovation. But they need the right information, insights and strategies. Do they get the right strategies from traditional consultancies? Or do they turn to 11:FS who know Fintech and have built digital banks like Monzo?

We believe that Digital Banking is only 1% finished. There is so much more we can do and are doing for our clients.

What attracted you to 11:FS?

The Co-Founders and I had known each other for a couple of years before me coming on board. We would regularly bump into each other at industry events or when I was a guest on the Fintech Insider podcast. It was clear we shared similar views on how digital banking should be done.

So, when David approached me, it just seemed like a natural next step. He is an inspiring leader and he has created a simple culture and philosophy that resonates. Importantly for me, it’s a high-performance culture, modelled on sports, teamwork and winning. But it is not a ‘win at all costs’ mentality. We have one golden rule ‘don’t be a dick’. It sounds simple, but regularly reminding ourselves of this one sentence nips arguments and politics in the bud.

At 11:FS I get to work with and meet amazing people. Had you told me a year ago I would get to interview Will.I.am, I’d have laughed. The velocity at which we are moving is unlike anything I have experienced.

Which people tend to be successful at 11:FS?

People with principles, passion and positivity. This is a high-performance culture where we work on outcomes and results. You have to believe in a particular way of working. We work in small teams, taking the sports team philosophy by bringing together people with complimentary technical skills and ability. We’ve assembled experienced banking, fintech and insurance leaders, alongside outstanding talent from start-ups, consultancies and agencies.

11:FS is unlike anywhere I have ever worked. It has been a wild ride so far. I joined 11:FS in September 2018. On day two I flew to Oslo to meet the DNB team and pick up my part of the negotiations that led to our current partnership. The negotiations were at an advanced stage when I came on board and it was great to have the team’s faith to jump right in.

This past 6 months have been the most exhilarating of my career.

A lot of people could find it daunting. People in Banking tend to think Fintech is sexy, fun, innovative. But the reality can be very different. It’s extremely tough work. We are at the leading edge of innovation, so most times it feels like we are building the plane as we are flying it.

We have an eclectic bunch here. Creatives, marketers, product, tech. Smart and driven people. We are now 150 staff and growing fast. A lot of people approach us direct because they follow the podcast, get excited by the work we do and feel a connection.

But we are just like any rapidly scaling business. We need a measured approach to Talent Acquisition and it is hard to find the right people when you are growing at scale. We are always open to people approaching us if they share our philosophy.

Leda, people consider you an ‘Influencer’ in fintech and you write regularly sharing advice. Who has been the greatest influence on your career?

First of all let me say, I find it an honour people read my work. But it’s my belief that you influence by doing, not by talking. The greatest influence on my career is Adriana Pierelli, my old mentor at BNY Mellon. She was the person who backed me when I launched the innovation division at BNY. At the time it felt like everyone was mocking me as I got excited by APIs and the possibilities they could bring to the business.

Adriana believed. And opened the door for me to prove myself. All we need is an opportunity and a little bit of faith. And she gave me both. There are two life lessons I took from Adriana.

1) Practical Impact. You must make things happen.

2) Pay things forward.

It is so important to help people along the journey. To give your time, advice, connections. The platform I have been given is a privilege, meaning I can help more people than ever. That is the great thing about the 11:FS tribe. The Fintech Insiders show takes a lot of time, energy, money and resources to produce. But we do it for free because we truly believe in paying things forward and making digital banking better.

Martin McCann - Trade Ledger

2019 was a breakthrough year for Trade Ledger. 2020 promises to be even bigger as open banking creates the perfect set of conditions for the Trade Ledger platform to take off.

Dexter Cousins of Tier One People caught up with CEO and Co-Founder Martin McCann in Sydney recently to talk open banking and Lending as a Service.

What kind of FinTech is Trade Ledger?

Trade Ledger is a banking platform technology designed to help banks and large non-bank lenders provide any type of credit to businesses and corporations around the world.

We have built a global platform, technology which can be instantly deployed in any country. Matt Born (co-founder) and I come from Enterprise Technology backgrounds. Trade Ledger came into being because we both wanted build what we call a ‘true platform’. We see a lot of FinTech’s claiming to provide platforms which in our view are nothing more than technology stacks for a specific product. These are not true industry platforms.

Enterprise Software, which is essentially what we do, is one of the most complex and difficult markets in business. We’ve been building Trade Ledger for a market which didn't even exist when we set up the company. Globally the market we operate in is estimated as a $4 Trillion opportunity. Just the undersupply of credit for businesses globally is $2 trillion. That is the extent to which businesses are underserved with lending and capital. We call it ‘Lending as a Service.’ Nobody used the term when we set the business up two-and-half years ago.

Can you tell me how LaaS works?

Essentially LaaS is the outsourcing of the IT and operational requirements for the bank when it comes to lending. Typically, for a business to apply to a bank anywhere in the world for a line credit the average time to process the application is 90 days.

There’s about 30 hours of manual work for the customer plus 300 emails and 500 calls involved.

Trade Ledger eliminates the manual processes using API’s and accessing the banks data, completing the whole process in four minutes without a single document filled out.

What do you attribute to your success so far?

Matt and I followed our own path when we started the business. Trade ledger was incorporated in August 2016 and we were supremely confident we were building the right solution at the right time for the right market. Joining forces is the first thing we got right. What Matt, the team and I are doing is really, really hard and you need at least two co-founders to tackle all of the challenges ahead.

The combination of us working together has proven to be a real positive for the company and our personal lives. Matt and I both have extensive experience in enterprise software. We both worked at SAP and we witnessed software disruption in other sectors, it was only a matter of time before the same would happen in banking.

The blueprint was already there from other industries, it was just a case of applying the strategy to the right niche. Forming our partnership, our timing and product-market fit are the keys to our success so far.

Can you tell me more about the Trade Ledger business?

The business is now over 20 people, evenly split between London and Sydney. We've almost doubled the size of the company in the last three to four months. We are delighted with the ‘firepower’ we have hired into the business.

Firstly, we managed to find really high calibre senior engineers, the kind of people we think are potential game changers. In London, we’ve hired a CFO who is highly respected in the VC community. He will help turbo charge the growth of the business. We are embarking on Series A funding, having a CFO of the calibre we have is essential.

All this adds to the great talent we already have.

We don’t want a development center, and operational offices, we're trying to keep uniformity across the offices. Fundamentally I believe three things will give Trade Ledger long-term differentiation, in the market-place.

The people in the organisation

The culture of the organisation

And what I call the velocity, are we moving fast enough in the right direction?

I don't know if we are moving fast enough in the right direction yet, but we are accelerating.

What makes the culture of Trade Ledger unique?

The culture is very important to us. Matt and I have almost identical values and business ethics. Transparency is key to us, in terms of our business relationships and our people. We firmly believe when you're trying to grow something this new, this quickly, you are going to break things, frequently.

It's what you do when you realise you're going in the wrong direction, or you've broken something which counts. And recognising which things you can break and what you absolutely have to get right.

Living by this ethos creates a culture of high performance which is the edge for a company like ours. Frankly, the banks struggle to attract the kind of people required for a high growth, exciting tech startup like Trade Ledger.

So, banks will have to partner with Fintech’s to access the talent, innovation and execution required for this next paradigm of business we are entering. Big organisations just cannot achieve the velocity required to keep up with the pace of innovation today.

What do you look for in the people you hire?

Primarily values and attitude. We don't focus on people's experience or their background, we focus on whether or not they would fit well with the team or will they be disruptive in the team. We love diversity. It does cause some challenges. The nature of diversity means it's harder to evaluate how someone will fit, in the context of values and ethics.

And then the other thing we look for is high potential or high propensity for success. What we've found is interesting. People who are under-experienced, properly motivated and show high potential are a much better fit for this organisation than people who've got proven experience.

People with high potential fit our culture and the way we work. They want to get ahead quickly, they appreciate the opportunity to be able to contribute and to learn. And they understand the value it creates for them as an asset that differentiates them in the market.

What prompted your move to London?

A good question. Can I say, it's really nice to be back in Sydney in the heat. From our perspective, Sydney is a great place to start a company. There's a lot of benefits to be found in the FinTech ecosystem but there are limitations.

The market itself is relatively small, compared to other markets globally. With our ambition to be a global software company, we don’t see significant market penetration in Australia. Banks in Europe and North America don’t see Australia as a market with enough scale, so it is difficult to get credibility as a global player being based from Sydney.

Why choose London? After some consideration and research, the legislative changes in Europe and open banking in the UK made London the ideal launch pad for the Trade Ledger platform.

There's massive investment from the banking sector in open banking technology, which from our perspective, is just API-based platform technology. The most innovative global bank transformation programs are happening in London. Lloyds alone has five transformation programs running, which, have a multi-year program budget of over 2.5 billion pounds. That's the scale of transformation technology that's happening in Europe and it's hard to find anything comparable happening anywhere in Australia.

If we want to be a global company, we have to win the European market and more specifically the London market. Open banking, GDPR and other legislative changes have created a seismic shift to data-driven lending in the business bank and SME funding market-place.

The UK is now 12 months into open banking. What are the potential opportunities here in Australia?

The UK market has been really interesting, and for us, it's great to have a ring-side seat to the first real implementation of open banking.

Year one was all about fixing the problems with the original scope, specification and approach to open banking. It went live late and there were a couple of issues with the implementation.

The challenge is shifting a heavily regulated market to a technology-driven business model in a record amount of time, it's never been done before. All of the interested parties are struggling to keep up.

The regulators are finding it particularly difficult to figure out what to do when things go wrong. Liability, specifically the daisy-chaining of liability and how to manage it, is turning out to be a significant problem. I think everyone has underestimated how big a shift this was going to be.

What can Australia learn from UK Open Banking?

Australia being number two into open banking is perfectly positioned to come up with the best capability in the world. It is a highly ambitious plan to implement open data across all industries. Conceptually this is where the market needs to go to.

The Australian market has perhaps underestimated the difficulty of implementation challenges. Something of this scale needs a very strong governance process. It needs to have a very, very high degree of consultation with all of the stakeholder groups.

My fear is the original scope could be thwarted, and open data never actually achieves the ambition outlined in the original agenda. Specifically creating competition in banking.

I wrote an article outlining my fears, published in the AFR. From the feedback I received, maybe people misunderstood my intention. I do not advocate any particular solution, Trade Ledger will prosper regardless of what Open Banking journey Australia chooses. I feel strongly that we need to have the right discussion about the national interest, because this is a once-in-a-generational opportunity Australia can’t afford to get wrong.

If Australia gets open banking right, it is my firm belief we can export financial services to other countries on a scale rivalling the mining industry. And if we get it wrong, then the opposite is true. Digital financial services does not observe national borders. Regulation, which once protected national markets has now become a grey area.

What does the future hold for Trade Ledger?

We are in advanced discussions with significant global banks. It is a distinct change in strategy for us. There is a much higher risk involved and a lot more investment up front.

If Trade Ledger is to become what we intended from day one, a global top three in the category, then it’s the direction we need to go in. We don't shy away from risk or challenges, we embrace them, and we work harder, faster, and smarter to try and move in the direction we want to go.