84: mx51, Victor Zheng

Tier One People starts a new financial year with a new season of Fintech Chatter Podcast.

Join Dexter Cousins as he chats to mx51 CEO Victor Zheng.

Victor Zheng is the CEO of mx51 and previously the co-CEO of Assembly Payments.

mx51 partners with banks and acquirers to deliver exceptional merchant experiences. Through a white-label Payments-as-a-Service platform, mx51 seamlessly connects the world of commerce into multi-channel payments.

Victor chats about payments innovation, pivots, splits, team rebuilds and leading throughout a pandemic.

And a special mention to Fintech Chatter Podcast no1 fan Harry Cousins who stepped in as production assistant for this episode.

Subscribe on your favourite player and if you like the show, please leave us a review as it helps other Fintech fans find the show and makes us feel good!

Top Fintech executive search firm

Celebrating 5 years in business, here is a message from Tier One People's founder, Dexter Cousins.

Tier One People launched on 2nd June 2016 to provide executive search expertise to the Fintech industry.

As Joanne and I celebrate 5 years of Tier One People we wanted to take the opportunity to say thank you to....


Five Things I've learned from 5 years of Tier One People.

  1. Do the right thing by people - The measure of my success is how easily I can put my head on the pillow and sleep at night. Being nice is massively underrated.
  2. Learn to say 'No' - Shooting at rabbits scares off big game. In the early days, I chased after and said yes to everything. It created confusion for potential clients and I missed out on big opportunities. A big lesson learned which set me on the path of.....
  3. Focus - We laser-focused our vision in late 2017 to help Australia become the no1 destination for Fintech innovation and to become the leading executive search brand in Fintech. By finding a purpose bigger than Tier One and staying true to our vision we've attracted some of the world's most revered Fintech brands as clients.
  4. Believe it to achieve it - In 2016 Zip and Afterpay had just listed, Fintech Australia had just been formed and most of our clients didn't exist. It wasn't until late 2018 that Fintech began to take off in Australia. But our belief in the huge potential of the sector saw us through a lean two years.
  5. One day you are the pigeon the next you are the statue - In the early days, this was a metaphor/belief I had around luck and good fortune, but I've since changed its meaning to become a daily reminder If you stand still you will get shat on! If you don't want to be shat on from a great height, keep flying, don't stand still.

83: Ezypay, James Foster on Fintech Chatter.

In episode 83 of Fintech Chatter Podcast Dexter Cousins is joined by James Foster CEO of Ezypay.




Ezypay is Australia’s first Subscription Payments company and an OG bootstrapped Fintech success! The business has been profitable and generating its own cash flow since starting in 1996.

Over the last 25 years, Ezypay has grown to 9 countries across Asia-Pacific. Reinvesting in technology. Ezypay has developed an innovative cloud billing platform, integrated with leading software companies across a range of industries.

James and Dexter talk about the Ezypay journey, the benefits of bootstrapping, rocketship growth, pivots and what it means to run a profitable business with zero VC funding.

If like us, you love a good bootstrap story then you will love this episode!

About James Foster.

James joined Ezypay in 2017 and has over 20 years’ experience in technology-driven businesses across marketing, sales and technology leadership roles.

His experience working at senior levels in global software and services organisations allows him to drive Ezypay’s ambitious growth objectives.

Find out more - https://www.ezypay.com/

Connect with James 

Intersekt 2021 Podcast

Intersekt 2021 will go down in history as the definitive Australian Fintech event. Join us for this live recording of Fintech Chatter Podcast at the AWS afterparty as we celebrate a watershed moment for the industry.

Experience the energy of Intersekt 2021 and hear from the people and characters who make Australian Fintech so unique.

With over 600 attendees and global Fintech like Revolut, TrueLayer, Q2, Xero, Mambu, Wise and Marqeta. The event also featured Australia's finest and a host of exciting new Fintech.

This event had all of the fun of a Money 20/20 and the wheeling and dealing of Sibos!

Tier One People is proud to have captured this moment and celebration of what makes Australian Fintech so unique. The innovations, resilience and most of all, the people.

Intersekt festival 2021

Dexter Cousins chats to Rebecca Schot-Guppy, CEO of Fintech Australia to talk about the upcoming Intersekt festival 2021.

The Australian Fintech industry will gather in Melbourne on Wednesday 19th May. What's the big occasion?

The premier Australian Fintech event, Intersekt Festival 2021.

It’s the first Intersekt since Oct 2019. In true FinTech Australia fashion they've gone all out hosting the premier Fintech Awards, the Finnies on 9th June!

Listen to Rebecca share plans for the events and what to expect from FA over the coming months. If you can't make it to Melbourne we'll bring you all of the action in a bumper podcast recorded at the event.

Get set for binge-listening!

Tier One People and FinTech Australia launch the People’s Choice podcasts at Intersekt Thursday 20th May.

Remember every unique listen goes to the vote count for your favourite Fintechs!

If you’d like to attend Intersekt go to intersektfestival.com

To attend 
the Finnies go to https://www.thefinnies.org.au/

UK Aus Fintech Bridge 3rd Anniversary

Tier One People founder, Dexter Cousins recently attended an exclusive event in Sydney to celebrate the third anniversary of the UK/Aus Fintech Bridge.

The Fintech Bridge is a partnership between Austrade and the UK DIT (Department of Industry and Trade.) Set up to encourage Fintech to expand and grow both ways, Tier One People has played a significant role in helping UK companies like 10x, Revolut and Truelayer launch down under.

As big supporters of the initiative, it was an extra thrill to see our work feature so prominently in this promo video

If you are planning to launch in Australia and have any questions on the talent market down under, just use the form below to get in touch and we will happily share market insights on skills availability, best locations for talent, salary bandings, ESOP and all other things talent.

Fintech Masterclass Podcast - Hiring

Welcome to the first of our Masterclass podcast series. Every month we bring together experts from the Tier One People network to discuss a particular aspect of scaling a Fintech.

In this episode Dexter Cousins is joined by two special guests from the world of Talent and People to discuss hiring.

Emma Jones of Project F and Sophie Theen of Oakam group.  

The core to success of every tech business is hiring a diverse group of talented people. The stats show diversity isn't just the right thing to do for society, but it makes a positive impact on a companies financial performance. But with Fintech lagging behind other sectors when it comes to diversity, how can founders go about bridging the gender gap and build diverse teams?


About Emma Jones

Emma Jones has amassed a career in all things talent, spanning more than 25 years across global markets.  After building an enterprise channel for tech start-up recruitment specialists Mitchellake Emma joined fast growth SaaS company, Ansarada as Global Head of Talent, scaling to more than double its headcount in two years.

Emma founded Men Championing Change (Sydney & Melbourne) before embarking on her current venture, Project F.

Project F is a for-profit, social impact business helping companies around the world to surface and remove the systemic and structural derailers that cause women to quit tech mid-career.

To find out more about Project F and the 50/50 Program mentioned in the show: https://www.projectf.com.au/program-50-50

Men Championing Change: https://www.meetup.com/Men-Championing-Change-Meetup/

About Sophie Theen

Sophie Theen is a Talent and HR professional with a focus on Fintech. Studying a Bachelor of Engineering at Monash and MBA at Melbourne Business School, Sophie has gained notable experience in Australia and Europe.

As first HR person at Revolut, Sophie helped scale the business from 30-500 people. She then joined 11:FS as Global Head of HR and Talent supporting 300% growth.

Now at Oakam Group as Chief People and Customer Officer, Sophie brings a unique approach and perspective to the role of Talent and HR within tech startups.

Sophie's work is consistently recognised by the Fintech industry as a Standout 35 of the Innovate Finance Women in Fintech Powerlist 2018, 2019, 2020 Diversity Advocate and Leader


You can connect with Sophie - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sophietheen/

And find out more about Oakam - https://www.oakam.com/about-us/careers/

76: Q2, Chris Boas

In episode 76 of Fintech Chatter Podcast Dexter Cousins is joined by Chris Boas, Managing Director APAC of Q2  a software business that creates simple, smart, end-to-end banking and lending experiences.

Chris chats about the role Q2 is playing in the Australian Fintech sector, where Q2's software (Cloud Lending) is used to power Fintech like Athena and Prospa.

Chris also shares some of the work Q2 is doing around the world, including some 900 banks and credit unions in the US.

And Chris shares his insights on the rapidly changing world of banking since the Covid-19 pandemic.

About Q2

Cloud Lending Solutions empowers the global lending & leasing community to connect with their borrowers in a whole new way by fundamentally transforming the borrower's experience. 

Built on Salesforce, the world's #1 CRM, Cloud Lending Solutions is the industry's only end-to-end lending and leasing software specifically designed to digitize the entire lending process. 

Cloud Lending continues to expand globally across five continents and over twenty-three countries.

Connect with Chris on LinkedIn

Find out more about Q2

Will AI replace people in banking?

An opinion piece by Dexter Cousins, Managing Director of Tier One People.

In late 2022 Chat GPT seemed to come out of nowhere, the truth is the technology is 7 years old and advancing at a rapid rate. Companies have been developing AI tools for decades, and in the last 10 years we've seen a huge increase in the adoption of AI in business.

So why is everyone suddenly scared that AI is going to take their job? I originally wrote this article back in 2017 and have come back to update it several times.

Will AI replace people in banking?

It is a question I am asked everyday. Now if you had asked me three years ago my answer would have been 'no.' 

Today I am not so sure, in fact I am convinced technology will replace up to 80% of jobs in banking.

While it is just a theory, it is not one I have plucked up from thin air. Nor is it based on wild claims about the capability of AI. This post is not intended to alarm people, but there are forces at play that when I follow through to a possible conclusion, there's a very real danger to jobs and our careers.

The Future of work.

Since 2012 I have been absorbed by the changing nature of work. My interest was piqued when I heard about a company called 'Freelancer', a platform connecting knowledge workers around the world.

Ever since I've spent much of my time researching and analysing the disruptive nature of technology, AI and robotics in the workforce. And yes I am worried about my own existence as a managing director of a recruitment business.

And this fear drove me to reinvent my own career, business and approach just to remain relevant. Ultimately I set out to create a business that was recession-proof and could be operated from anywhere in the world with a smartphone and internet connection.

Since Covid hit and remote working has been forced upon us, the term ‘The future of work’ is repeatedly used - but the future is here and has been for some time.

What we are seeing now is a tidal wave of change that has been building up for decades, multiple forces are converging that threaten very rapid change which humans are struggling to keep pace with.

In this two part piece I'll cover the forces and share why I believe they will make 80% of banking staff redundant.

Force one: Purpose-built digital banks create pressure for boards and CEO’s.

There's a lot of debate about Neobanks and if they will succeed. There seems little concern from the incumbent banks that Neo's will ever get the scale to threaten their profits. I feel this is a rather short-sighted and narrow view of the threats.

Australia’s leading bank, Commonwealth Bank, was founded in 1912. It serves approximately 10m customers across retail and business banking mainly across Australia. The bank employs approximately 52,000 people and in 2020 made a net profit of Au$7.3bn or a profit of Au$146,000 per employee

As banks go, they are at the forefront of digital innovation and easily in the top 10 banks globally when it comes to digital. They took the bold step of replacing their core banking system in 2008 and are currently in the process of moving 95% of technology and apps into the public cloud.

Revolut. Some would argue is not a bank although it does hold a European banking license and is in the process of applying for a UK banking license. Launched in 2015, in just six years Revolut has gained 14m customers with operations in the UK, Portugal, USA, Japan, Singapore, India and Australia. 

It offers customers low cost international transfers, access to gold and silver, cryptocurrency, free share trading and in the UK also offers business accounts. Revolut develops products and ships features at a lightning pace, operating more like Amazon than JP Morgan.

Revolut currently employs approximately 2000 employees and is now operating at a profit.

What is not clear at this stage is if Revolut's model will generate big profits like CBA. In order to be as profitable as CBA per employee, they will need to generate Au$292,000,000 profit.

Revolut does not yet offer lending products, which are the most profitable products in any retail banks portfolio. But when Revolut does start lending, how many additional people will they need to employ? 

Definitely not 50,000.

Is Revolut a one off? No, in Hong Kong, Welab has approximately 800 staff and serves 40+ million users/customers.

As more companies like Revolut and Welab gain momentum, increase revenue and exponentially increase profit, surely boards have to question why 52,000 are needed to run a bank?

In Australia we have witnessed 3 CEO’s lose their job in the last two years, all to mishaps in risk and compliance and ultimately human error/interference. The logical conclusion to draw - if processes can be automated to remove the potential risk of human error they will be. 

Force two: Remote working and cloud.

Most banks are listed on a stock exchange, meaning their no1 goal is to generate profits for shareholders. And in order to remain profitable incumbent banks will need to replace people with technology. Shareholders expect returns and dividends and every CEO is incentivized to deliver.

When you already have the lion's share of the market, the only way to deliver more profit is to cut costs. And people are usually where the biggest cost savings can be found.

Many banks are focused on replacing legacy systems and moving to the cloud. Covid19 has accelerated this trend. But could a move to the cloud lead to job losses and displacement?

We have to anticipate that more efficient technology will lead to job cuts, particularly for those who's jobs are based on data input and spreadsheets. But there are greater implications

Commonwealth Bank is ahead of the curve having replaced the core banking system and moved to the public cloud. Matt Comyn the CEO is intent on delivering a new experience for customers. And to help he is bringing in the very best talent from the startup and Fintech world. 

Developers, engineers, cybersecurity, blockchain, data science. The list of talent suggests CBA identifies itself as a silicon valley tech giant, much like Google, Facebook and Netflix. 

As more and more banks replace legacy systems and move to the cloud their demand for similar skill sets will increase. We are seeing this with other digitally savvy banks like JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs.

The demand for these skills is high, but supply is low, especially if you look locally. Here in Australia we see comparably average software developers with 2-3 years experience commanding $200,000 per year. In the past many banks have made do with local talent. Now they are looking globally for the very best talent in the market.

If you go to India or Eastern Europe you can get incredible developer and engineering talent talent for a fraction of the cost. With a move to cloud banks realise many of their staff can work remotely, which means technically a job can be done anywhere in the world.

This potentially threatens local jobs in two ways. 

  1. Lower skilled workers miss out on the opportunity of higher skilled jobs and salaries to highly skilled talent overseas. Without the need for Visas, work permits, travel, relocation etc employment costs can be drastically lowered. 

2. If a job can be done remotely, technically it can be done anywhere in the world, meaning cheaper labour is available. Will lower skilled workers miss out on the jobs they are qualified for to overseas talent who can perform the same tasks at a fraction of the cost?

Force three: Artificial intelligence.

There’s a recent trend where offshore jobs have been brought back onshore. One area we’ve seen this most is in customer service, especially since Covid. Bank branch staff have been repurposed as customer service/contact centre staff.

This is good news in the short-term. But there’s a looming risk to jobs. We work with several Ai companies who work with banks and are in the process of automating customer service. Working closely with the customer service staff, actions are input into Ai/Machine learning models and emulated.

I’ve personally seen trials of the technology and it is scary how good it is for dealing with general enquiries. I was on hold for 3 hours to my bank last week for a simple inquiry that’s still not resolved, waiting in a queue for a human to answer!

Artificial intelligence is being adopted in Customer Service, Risk, Pricing, Compliance, Finance, Treasury, basically every area of the banking industry.

While it will never replace humans completely it will take away many of the mundane and repetitive tasks. It’s feasible that a department of 50 could become a department of 5 SME’s supported by a data scientist and Ai.

Force four: Open Banking and CDR.

The promise of CDR (Consumer data Right) is some way off. It’s an ambitious plan to give consumers the right to use their data for their benefit. Imagine applying for a mortgage and getting unconditional approval in minutes. That is the promise of open data.

Initial progress is slow, but don’t underestimate how fast things will move once there is traction. Tier One People is working with well-capitalised startups with a vision to completely disrupt lending. 

The applications for open banking threatens jobs on many levels.

The first two jobs at risk are credit and underwriting. With access to my entire past 10 years of spending and online data, credit risk models will be able to give a decision instantly. Just ask anyone applying for a home loan right now if this is something they want. People are losing deposits on houses because it is taking banks 3-4 months to give a decision on an application.

Now imagine a world where you are instantly given a decision and approved. This potentially takes away the need for mortgage advisers, underwriters and credit assessors. And because it is all automated with audit trails, there’s no need for compliance either. 

Force five: The next generation of customers.

My kids are 10 and 8. They love video games and can tell you everything you want to know about Neobanks. They closed down their school bank account recently.

“How dare a bank expect me to turn up to school with cash, fill in a deposit form and not let me access my money when I need it”

Now they have a Spriggy account (with cool star wars cards) and Revolut kids accounts. My mum and siblings (living overseas) regularly send the kids money to their Revolut accounts. It hits the account in 30 seconds with no international fees! No waiting 4 days and giving 10-20% to the bank in fees and conversion charges. 

They spend most of their money on Avatars in a game called Roblox. You may have heard about it, the company just listed on the NYSE and the share price pretty much doubled.

About half of American kids under 16 are on the platform! So what does this have to do with banking? Quite a bit actually.

First of all the game has its own digital currency, Robux. You can use Robux to buy avatars and play games which other people build. You can even build your own games and get paid Robux when people play your game.

The world my kids are growing up in is a one where they don’t trust banks, they don’t see a need for banks and they are very comfortable with digital currencies and storing them in digital wallets.

We are living in a world where businesses are built almost overnight if they fit the needs of customers. If they don’t, they go bust just as quickly. Blackberry is a great example.

There is no way my kids will tolerate being on hold for 3 hours because of legacy system problems. They will just close the account and go somewhere better. 

It is this shift in customer behaviour that potentially poses the greatest threat to banking jobs, mainly because banks are in danger of losing their relevance.

When I first started working, I was paid in cash. I never used nor needed a bank account until my employer began electronic transfers of salaries.

But let’s say my kids choose to be paid in Robux or Bitcoin, like the Basketball star Russell Okung. It goes straight to a digital wallet and maybe held in a cold storage wallet. What kind of impact does this have on bank deposits and their capital adequacy?

We have seen the first glimpses of the changing behaviours of customers with the rapid decline in new credit cards. Instead people are choosing BNPL products with interest-free credit options instead of high-interest cards.

As we move to a negative interest rate scenario, it will cost customers to keep their cash in a bank, will we see deposits shift into digital currencies and gold?

If banks get into capital adequacy trouble, will we see consolidation and further job cuts?

In conclusion banks need to evolve like every other industry and technology will disrupt the model. It is up to us as individuals to recognise and anticipate the changes and keep relevant. This requires reinvention and a consistent focus on personal development.

In the next post I’ll share my thoughts on what the future of banking will look like, the skills in demand and how you can reinvent yourself to remain relevant.

Do you need a resume?

We live in a digital world - yet many of the processes and systems we use are stuck in an analog world. None more so than recruitment. Despite rapid technological advances this century, the process of hiring has remained largely unchanged over the last 100 years. No part of the hiring process causes more debate than the resume.

How many pages should a resume be? 

This is a question I am asked every day. And everyone has their own answer.

Many people are even questioning if we need resumes at all.

You may think of the resume as a record of work so why bother when we have LinkedIn?

But the origins of the resume were as much a marketing tool as a record of work. 

So where did the resume originate?

In 1482, a 30-year-old Leonardo Da Vinci wanted to work in the city of Milan as a town planner/architect. So he sent a letter to the Regent of Milan, outlining his skills and experience.

The resume was born!

Leonardo Da Vinci's resume in 1498

At the time of Da Vinci, there were obviously no job boards, no recruitment agencies, no LinkedIn, no internet, no video, no phones. 

LDV didn't even have a job he could apply to. So how did he pique the interest of the Regent enough to get a job? 

Here’s the clever thing LDV did with his resume. Rather than just list the things he had done, he listed 11 ways he could improve the city of Milan with examples to back it up. 

Marketing 101 - Identify a problem, present a solution and describe the value it creates.

So not only was Leonardo Da Vinci a supremely talented innovator, engineer and artist, he was also a highly gifted marketer!

The big problem with resumes

The regent of Milan didn't receive hundreds of resumes. He only received one and it was unique!

Today your resume is amongst millions being submitted to job boards and recruitment agencies on a daily basis.

A 2018 study revealed recruiters take on average 7.4 seconds to decide if you are a fit or not.

How do you get your expertise across in a few pages in just 7.4 seconds? Clickbait?

Not quite but if you look at the science behind a clickbait headline it is there to draw the reader in. Then provide more detailed information.

So should your resume be more like a landing page?

We are at the beginning of the data/digital revolution

Now is the time to innovate, ditch the resume, get with the program and stop relying on a tool that’s over 500 years old.

But everyone demands a resume I hear you say. Of course, they do.

At the time, the only medium LDV had available to showcase his skills and expertise was writing.

But you have video, podcasts, blogs, websites, GitHub, Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, Club House, Newsletters. The list of possibilities to convey your skills and expertise is endless!

So how would Da Vinci market himself today🤔

If Da Vinci followed conventional advice, he'd spend months trying to figure out how to distil his vast experience into two or three pages.

Here’s a few things I think LDV would do to market himself in 2021.

Is this a lot of work? Absolutely!

And it should be. If you think of yourself as a business is it acceptable the only way you would promote your business is through a 3 or 4-page brochure? Do companies even have brochures today?

If you are struggling to get all of your experience into a resume, that’s because it is impossible.

Remember we are in the data/digital age. A written 3-page document holds less than a megabyte of information. A video file contains hundreds of megabytes!

Instead of ‘A picture paints a thousand words’ - ‘A video paints a billion words’

If you don't think this is relevant just look on LinkedIn and Twitter and you will see the competition you are up against. There are people creating a personal brand and doing a great job of marketing themselves. To the extent that the work comes to them.

So do you still need a resume?

Yes, you do need a resume, but only as part of a multi-channel marketing strategy.

The debate around resumes concerns me. It seems the vast majority of the workforce believes they hold no responsibility for conveying relevant information in ways that clearly articulate their value to a prospective employer or client.

And it causes me even greater concern when writing a resume is outsourced to a resume writing service. No one can or should do a better job of communicating your expertise and experience.

Would you agree that your ability to present and communicate effectively with words is a critical component of your daily work?

With most of the world operating remotely, it has become more important than ever that our writing skills are up to the task.

One final thing + a free resume template

The resume was designed for A4 paper. But most people will read your resume on a laptop screen or smartphone (we have the data to back this up)

The A4 format actually works quite well for a smartphone - if you keep the formatting simple.

At Tier one People we’ve put together our design know-how coupled with data to create an optimised one-pager resume. The only thing that is missing is your clickbait headline!

You can download the one-pager for free.

Podcast name change to Fintech Chatter

First of all, thank you for supporting the FinTech Australia Podcast show and tuning in over the last 12 months.

Along with the partners for the show, FinTech Australia we are blown away by your kind words, messages of support, reviews, shares and appearance requests.

That’s why we wanted you to be the first to know about some changes happening as we move into season four. 

After an awesome twelve months (3 seasons and 100 shows) together FinTech Australia will no longer be partnering with Tier One People on the podcast.

It’s been an incredible ride for both organisations and we are immensely proud of what we’ve achieved together. We came together over a common purpose, to put Australian Fintechs on the map by providing a global platform for leaders and founders to share their inspiring stories.

The partnership started in March 2020 just as COVID hit the industry hard. Where normally we’d congregate at innovation hubs, accelerators and pizza and beer nights, the podcast became a way to connect us during lockdown.

The podcast has served FinTech Australia and Tier One People well, leading to new opportunities for us both. And our relationship with FinTech Australia will continue in other ways like the People's Choice Awards at this year's Finnies.

“The podcast has done an amazing job of covering the incredible stories in the Australian fintech sector. We wish Dexter and the show all the best for its future endeavours and look forward to working together on other initiatives.” 

FinTech Australia CEO Rebecca Schot-Guppy

So what does all this mean for you?

Other than the name, nothing else changes. We’ll still release one show per week, Dexter will still be your host and we will continue to bring you exclusive interviews with global Fintech leaders. If you are subscribed to the podcast there is nothing else to do.

So that leaves only one thing. What to name the podcast!

Drum roll please …

Fintech Chatter

FinTech Australia will be resuming their podcast to bring you thought leadership content on fintech policy and advocacy.

We encourage you to subscribe and give them your support - http://www.fintechaustralia.org.au/

Dexter Cousins on Ausbiz

Dexter Cousins appears on Ausbiz TV with Westpac economist Justin Smirk as they talk through the latest jobs data. Is the job recovery from Covid underway or could there be new threats on the horizon?

The fantastic team at Ausbiz invited Tier One People founder, Dexter Cousins into their Sydney studio recently to talk about the job market. Joined by Westpac economist Justin Smirk, the conversation provides a fascinating glimpse into the impacts of Covid on team performance, which jobs could be at risk and the impacts ai and offshore talent could have on Aussie jobs.